Sometimes RTFM isn’t particularly applicable either though. I think the best thing to do is make SOME attempt at LEAST to answer the question on your own.

1. Most people on IRC and forums _think_ these things, but do not act on them. By far the majority of people on IRC _are_ helpful and pleasant, but still get pissed off when people ask stupid things.

2. There is no such thing as a free lunch – if you want free support, then there is a cost in terms of what people will expect you to do to ‘earn’ that free support.

3. These expectations are not unrealistic or overly complicated, but rather a common courtesy to enable the smooth functioning of a busy help channel/site.

4. These expectations are not entirely for the benefit of the ‘guru-in-residence’, but also benefit the questioner – a well asked question is more likely to a) be answered quickly, and b) be answered correctly.

Check the FAQ first!

I totally agree with Oscar that it is very unfortunate that so much linux software can be very difficult to learn how to use, but we really have two issues here. That issue needs to be solved by /developers/ looking at what the most common problems with their software are and then redesigning those parts of it. Unfortunetly, many (linux, but not only linux) developers don’t care enough about the end user to do this.

The other issue is, as John said, people with NO WILL TO LEARN and just want you to do everything for them. I never said that I wouldn’t help someone with a samba authentication issue, but my response would probably be “samba uses it’s own user database, read the man page for smbpasswd (man smbpasswd).” Many people at this point have screamed back “but I dont wannnaaaa!!!” and continued to hound me for a “better” solution. Also, I’ll never reffer someone to a man page unless I am 100% sure that the answer to their question is in there somewhere, I’d rather check the man page myself first then tell them how to read it than answering their question directly because this way in the future theres a higher chance of them thinking to try that on their own the next time they have an issue with something.

And really my point with this post wasn’t to flame people for not knowing anything, it was just for asking useless questions. Numbers 6, 7, and 8 are really a seporate issue from the rest, but (I feel) are still an important step to try when troubleshooting something. If someone doesn’t, however, I will try generally point them in the right direction. I just need to understand what they are trying to do first, which is what has been such a problem lately.

I do indeed hope that developers start to realize that if they expect their software to be used they need to design it for *other people’s needs* and not just their own. There have been several occations in the program that I am developing where I have changed how something works because almost all of the people who were beta testing had a problem with it, even though I liked it more how it was before. In the case of samba, they really need to clean up logging so it actually prints useful errors for many things (setting the log level up just makes it worse in most cases).

Yes , Oscar has a valid point here. A view weeks ago I installed Samba. It did not connect. I checked the log files, I checked the Config file. I tried to read the manual. I missed the point that I have to run smbpasswd. Really this thing is not obvious. I got the error message “Wrong user or Password”, so I checked the config file. I tried and tried, using all kind of configurations. I nearly gave up. After a view frustrating hours I went out and bought a book about Linux. Ok, the book mentioned that I have to run smbpasswd.

Again. It is not obvious even for a guy who has some experience with Unix.

This attitude (Users should learn) is making it so difficult to use Linux. All the time you got to learn something.

This attitude has to change. Or Linux will not be a success.

Chris

What does RTFM stand for again? And you don’t think this is impolite?
Your attitude is full of implicit judgements.
1) The helper’s time is WAY MORE VALUABLE than the person seeking help.
This is not always true.
2) All people need to learn through self discovery and logical deduction. This is absolutely wrong. Many people cannot do this. They learn through different ways that are equally as valid.
3) I can figure it out so if you can’t given the same information then you are less intelligent or “lazy”
4) The person that needs help has the time or inclination to become an expert to the point that they can troubleshoot and fix their own problems. This is not true for MOST computer users. The computer is a tool nothing more. “The tool is broken. Now I’ll be late getting home to make dinner for the family. Where is that manual again anyway? I’ll go online and get some help. Wow. RTFM! that was rude. Stupid computer. Why can’t they make these things simpler or just make them so they don’t break down all the time or when they do break down they give me the information I need to fix the solution instead of a generic error and a “check the logs and run again” message.

The point I’m trying to make here is that computers are not an end to themselves. People have lives that require the interaction with machines. That’s all. It’s not “fun” or “a challenge”. It’s just a tool. Many “professionals” forget this.

Unless we design with the user in mind (instead of ourselves) we will continue to build systems full of functionality but without any useability.

Linux shows this all too well. You can do anything (technically speaking) with it that you want but in terms of useability, unless the task has a nice GUI and a wizard, it will not get used by the average user. That is if they manage to get Linux installed at all!

I’m not going to start a religious war here in someone else’s blog. If you want to discuss this further, you can e-mail me.

Cheers,

Oscar

I gladly help people clen their spyware infested systems and install their drivers. But if I tell them not to run attachments from mails and not to use IE, that is a minimum requirement for me to fix their computer again.

It’s one thing to offer ones superior skill and knowlege as help. It is another deal altogether to do unpaid workd for lazy people.

“The primary people who come into IRC channels asking for help are CS students and computer professionals”

Are you trying to say that the only people that use IRC are “techies”? My mom uses IRC and she can barely keep the mouse pointed forward.

Regardless, I guess this is just where we differ in philosophy. I believe that software should be designed to be easy enough so that even grandmother’s can (maybe with some help) maintain and diagnose their own system. We don’t expect everyone to know how to diagnose their car’s problems. We don’t expect everyone to know how to install a toilet or a water softener. We don’t even expect everyone to know how to do their own taxes! We rely on our devices to be reliable and easy to use and when we need help, we should expect to receive it by professionals who offer their help with courtesy and respect.
Now, I’m not saying that FireRabbit can’t help people. I’m just saying that if he does decide to help people, to not expect them to know everything (or even anything) about the subject matter. There are a lot of computer professionals that don’t have a clue about samba. They don’t even know that logs exist! All they know is Windows.

Oscar

I would say that what he is teaching (proper communication skills when asking for assistance in problem-solving) are nigh-critical for this audience. And I daresay he teaches his subject decently well, but in a very hilarious manner :D