How to (and how to not) ask for help
There seems to be a trend lately. Let’s ask someone for help and assume that they can both see our screen and read our mind!
Examples:
(21:39:47) Someone: for my site i can’t get mono to work as my handler for my site i put the handler line in the apache2.conf but it isn’t working
(18:22:24) Someone: i still cant change my screen resolution
(18:22:49) Eric: what video driver are you using
(18:22:58) Someone: the one it installed
Guys, seriously. I’m not trying to be an asshole, but what do you expect from me? Telling me that something “doesn’t work” is completly worthless.
I’ve gotten so fed up with answering questions like these that I have come up with a list of things to think about when asking for help on the internet. I hope this can be useful to others as well.
How to ask for help on the internet without getting yelled at
- ASK THE QUESTION
(It’s amazing how many people get this one wrong)
WRONG: “I have a question about mono.”
This is very simple, fellows. TEACH US TELEPATHY, OR ASK THE FUCKING QUESTION.
- Explain what it is you are trying to acomplish:
WRONG: “I am trying to set up mod_cgi with apache.”This is worthless because it doesn’t give the person you are asking any background information. You could be approacing your problem with the wrong solution.
CORRECT: “I am trying to set up a Wordpress blog using apache and mod_cgi.”
Since our “expert” in this case now knows what your goal is, they can say Wordpress is a PHP application, you need to install mod_php instead. This will save a lot of everyone’s time.
- Explain what the error message is:
WRONG: “I am trying to set up samba so I can transfer files to my linux server and it doesn’t work.”
There are about 40,000 (at least) things that can go wrong with a samba installation. Being this vague is worthless.
CORRECT: “I am trying to set up samba and I when I try to connect using windows it tells me that my username or password is incorrect, but I KNOW that I am entering the correct password!”
The expert in this case could now very simply tell the person asking the question that they need to run smbpasswd -a because by default samba has it’s own user database, or re-configure pam so it does direct UNIX authentication.
- Lookup what the error means first:
WRONG: “I am getting an ‘Error 403′ when I try to access my website, what does this mean?!”
Nothing pisses someone off more than someone using them as their reference manual. Look up what an error means BEFORE asking for help with it. Understanding the error might be even enough to fix the problem.
CORRECT: “I am getting an ‘Error 403′ when I try to access my website, but I have apache set to ‘Allow From All’! What else could be causing this to deny access?”
Obviously the user probably has their directory permissions set too restrictive preveting the webserver from accessing it.
- Explain what you expected to happen instead of the error:
WRONG: “I set up apache but when I visit my site I get a 404 error.”
You did? Really? Oh noes not the dreaded 404!
CORRECT: “I set up apache but when I visit my site I get a 404 error instead of my website. I put my index.html document in /etc/apache2/ but it’s not working!”
Obviously the user put their web content in the wrong directory. Hopefully, however, if the user followed the preveous item (lookup the error message first) they would be able to provide a slightly more useful description of their problem than this.
- Check any log files FIRST
If something isn’t working READ THE LOG FILES FIRST. If the log files arent helpful enough figure out how to increase the log level and try again. You might be impressed by how helpful the logs can be.
- Read the fucking man page before asking for help (RTFM)
WRONG: “Where does samba write it’s log files to?”
This is answered in the man page! There’s really no correct way to say this one. This should be your though proccess with almost all software: “man samba”. Okay, hm, a list of other things. What’s this smb.conf man page they keep bringing up, the log file is probably a configuration setting right? Let’s check that out… “man smb.conf” …hm… lots of stuff here. Let’s search for “log file”, oh, there it is! …etc..
- This one needs no further explination:
Categorized as Me/Rants, Technology
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The definitive document on this topic is http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
People need to read this over and over.
This attitude of “if you can’t be smart then you don’t deserve to use a computer” is EXACTLY why you shouldn’t be helping people. Not everybody is cut out for being an instructor even if they know the material. You can’t assume that people will think the way you do and to chastising them for it is wrong.
There are all kinds of people that need to use their computers to get a job done. They don’t care or know what a samba is or why they need it. All they know is that it doesn’t work. Please someone help me fix it.
I am a computer professional and I had this exact attitude too until I realized that I shouldn’t be helping people! Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone can teach.
Would you yell at your grandmother like this? How about your 11 year old cousin?
How about someone who is barely english literate?
Helping people is about helping PEOPLE, not tolerating “fools who should know how I liked my questions asked”
Oscar
But that’s exactly my point. I, and many other people, do not have the patience or time to hold someone’s hand to fix a problem. I am totally willing to guide someone in the right direction, but only if they have a real will to learn and can prove that they have already done everything that they know how to do to fix the problem. If someone can’t do this, they need to find help elsewhere.
Oscar, ahh, but you forget that he isn’t preaching to grandmother’s asking how to get mod_php working. The primary people who come into IRC channels asking for help are CS students and computer professionals.
I would say that what he is teaching (proper communication skills when asking for assistance in problem-solving) are nigh-critical for this audience. And I daresay he teaches his subject decently well, but in a very hilarious manner :D
David,
“The primary people who come into IRC channels asking for help are CS students and computer professionals”
Are you trying to say that the only people that use IRC are “techies”? My mom uses IRC and she can barely keep the mouse pointed forward.
Regardless, I guess this is just where we differ in philosophy. I believe that software should be designed to be easy enough so that even grandmother’s can (maybe with some help) maintain and diagnose their own system. We don’t expect everyone to know how to diagnose their car’s problems. We don’t expect everyone to know how to install a toilet or a water softener. We don’t even expect everyone to know how to do their own taxes! We rely on our devices to be reliable and easy to use and when we need help, we should expect to receive it by professionals who offer their help with courtesy and respect.
Now, I’m not saying that FireRabbit can’t help people. I’m just saying that if he does decide to help people, to not expect them to know everything (or even anything) about the subject matter. There are a lot of computer professionals that don’t have a clue about samba. They don’t even know that logs exist! All they know is Windows.
Oscar
To require someone to do their best before asking for help is not to demand techincal expertise. I fully agree, RTFM is not an impolite answer.
I gladly help people clen their spyware infested systems and install their drivers. But if I tell them not to run attachments from mails and not to use IE, that is a minimum requirement for me to fix their computer again.
It’s one thing to offer ones superior skill and knowlege as help. It is another deal altogether to do unpaid workd for lazy people.
“I fully agree, RTFM is not an impolite answer.”
What does RTFM stand for again? And you don’t think this is impolite?
Your attitude is full of implicit judgements.
1) The helper’s time is WAY MORE VALUABLE than the person seeking help.
This is not always true.
2) All people need to learn through self discovery and logical deduction. This is absolutely wrong. Many people cannot do this. They learn through different ways that are equally as valid.
3) I can figure it out so if you can’t given the same information then you are less intelligent or “lazy”
4) The person that needs help has the time or inclination to become an expert to the point that they can troubleshoot and fix their own problems. This is not true for MOST computer users. The computer is a tool nothing more. “The tool is broken. Now I’ll be late getting home to make dinner for the family. Where is that manual again anyway? I’ll go online and get some help. Wow. RTFM! that was rude. Stupid computer. Why can’t they make these things simpler or just make them so they don’t break down all the time or when they do break down they give me the information I need to fix the solution instead of a generic error and a “check the logs and run again” message.
The point I’m trying to make here is that computers are not an end to themselves. People have lives that require the interaction with machines. That’s all. It’s not “fun” or “a challenge”. It’s just a tool. Many “professionals” forget this.
Unless we design with the user in mind (instead of ourselves) we will continue to build systems full of functionality but without any useability.
Linux shows this all too well. You can do anything (technically speaking) with it that you want but in terms of useability, unless the task has a nice GUI and a wizard, it will not get used by the average user. That is if they manage to get Linux installed at all!
I’m not going to start a religious war here in someone else’s blog. If you want to discuss this further, you can e-mail me.
Cheers,
Oscar
Hello
Yes , Oscar has a valid point here. A view weeks ago I installed Samba. It did not connect. I checked the log files, I checked the Config file. I tried to read the manual. I missed the point that I have to run smbpasswd. Really this thing is not obvious. I got the error message “Wrong user or Password”, so I checked the config file. I tried and tried, using all kind of configurations. I nearly gave up. After a view frustrating hours I went out and bought a book about Linux. Ok, the book mentioned that I have to run smbpasswd.
Again. It is not obvious even for a guy who has some experience with Unix.
This attitude (Users should learn) is making it so difficult to use Linux. All the time you got to learn something.
This attitude has to change. Or Linux will not be a success.
Chris
> It’s one thing to offer ones superior skill and knowlege as help. It is another deal altogether to do unpaid workd for lazy people.
Well said.
I totally agree with Oscar that it is very unfortunate that so much linux software can be very difficult to learn how to use, but we really have two issues here. That issue needs to be solved by /developers/ looking at what the most common problems with their software are and then redesigning those parts of it. Unfortunetly, many (linux, but not only linux) developers don’t care enough about the end user to do this.
The other issue is, as John said, people with NO WILL TO LEARN and just want you to do everything for them. I never said that I wouldn’t help someone with a samba authentication issue, but my response would probably be “samba uses it’s own user database, read the man page for smbpasswd (man smbpasswd).” Many people at this point have screamed back “but I dont wannnaaaa!!!” and continued to hound me for a “better” solution. Also, I’ll never reffer someone to a man page unless I am 100% sure that the answer to their question is in there somewhere, I’d rather check the man page myself first then tell them how to read it than answering their question directly because this way in the future theres a higher chance of them thinking to try that on their own the next time they have an issue with something.
And really my point with this post wasn’t to flame people for not knowing anything, it was just for asking useless questions. Numbers 6, 7, and 8 are really a seporate issue from the rest, but (I feel) are still an important step to try when troubleshooting something. If someone doesn’t, however, I will try generally point them in the right direction. I just need to understand what they are trying to do first, which is what has been such a problem lately.
I do indeed hope that developers start to realize that if they expect their software to be used they need to design it for *other people’s needs* and not just their own. There have been several occations in the program that I am developing where I have changed how something works because almost all of the people who were beta testing had a problem with it, even though I liked it more how it was before. In the case of samba, they really need to clean up logging so it actually prints useful errors for many things (setting the log level up just makes it worse in most cases).
RTFM may be fine, but the FAQ is even more relevant for technical support. It’s usually more user-friendly and easier to read than a hundred-kilobyte-long man page.
Check the FAQ first!
This is always a hotly debated topic, but here are some thoughts:
1. Most people on IRC and forums _think_ these things, but do not act on them. By far the majority of people on IRC _are_ helpful and pleasant, but still get pissed off when people ask stupid things.
2. There is no such thing as a free lunch - if you want free support, then there is a cost in terms of what people will expect you to do to ‘earn’ that free support.
3. These expectations are not unrealistic or overly complicated, but rather a common courtesy to enable the smooth functioning of a busy help channel/site.
4. These expectations are not entirely for the benefit of the ‘guru-in-residence’, but also benefit the questioner - a well asked question is more likely to a) be answered quickly, and b) be answered correctly.
kNo’: I’d probably agree with you, but most developers don’t take the time to put any useful answers in the FAQ, so FAQs are 9 times out of 10 useless.
Sometimes RTFM isn’t particularly applicable either though. I think the best thing to do is make SOME attempt at LEAST to answer the question on your own.